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Science, Magic, Writing, a pet peeve.

Science, Magic, Writing, a pet peeve.

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Below I write up my honest harsh bitchy opinions in sort of a spontaneous rant.  So take it with a shake of sugar.  My actual opinion isn't this sour. I just don't have time to articulate it better. 

I love Magic.  I also love science.  So please tell me why the marriage of science and magic make me want to scream.
It's because people who are using science in their magic, are writing for people on the bandwagon.  Throw out the words quantum, throw out some fancy numbers, and people will gobble it up because they want to be sophisticated and modern.  So, if you MUST pander to the psuedo science crowd, TRY to convert me.  Don't just rip out a definition from somewhere, and expect me to do the legwork to try and understand your point of view, provide me with an explaination of how you got the fancy science to link up with the magic in a way that you view as legitimate.
My mind doesn't feel liberated when it just seems like a trendy word was kidnapped and dressed up with some razzle dazzle to make people think more open mindedly.  You can say that the grass is really red, and some will believe you, but I want PROOF, or at least the reason WHY you think so.

Magic doesn't need the latest modern physics.  Magic doesn't need trendy jargon.  It's a beautiful thing of it's own merit.  I'm NOT saying to throw away the scientific method, but crying for people not to just commandeer words because they seem pretty.

Using a model of something isn't the same thing as using the thing itself.  Wonderful things are born of the perceptions of science wielded towards magic.  But it's not really the scientific model doing the work.  It's no longer science, but magic when you cross that line.
For instance, I have a primitive idea of how a robot works.  I could use this science enhanced understanding to build a better entity, but I can't say it's the same thing as building a robot, because I'm using magic, not metal, and though there is inspiration from the actual proccess, it is not the process itself in it's true form.
  • (no subject) - teriel
    • Partially. I got to the chapter on science, and was hoping my questions about the intro would be resolved. There were so many things that I wanted to know why you said them, but without proper explaination, just looked irrational.

      I want to know more about this imaginary time, from your perspective.

      Through your understanding of imaginary time, you constructed a model that is similar to one I work with, so I liked the end result, but felt that the connections to the science were weak. So it was sorta pseudo science.

    • Ah, for irational, I meant that it appeared not to logically go from a to b.
      They aren't loaded in my mind, because I accept that I'm often irrational, and appreciate that it still has merit.

      As for I.T. I already use that model (i didn't call it anything) and don't need anything to justify it. Your explaination quote just explained how to graph imaginary numbers, and really, there isn't anything special that they are called imaginary, they could be called asparagus numbers, then would people be so inspired by them? Asparagus Time? So for me, there was no understanding of why these numbers represent imaginary time. I would love to see more discourse on the subject.
    • Gah, I have never read any popular science stuff, and I'm really surprised that they can't put it in layman's terms better. I've had so many good down-to-earth explainations that I take them forgranted.

      One thing that is bothersome is quantum is discontinuous. Either this or that, but not in between. Yet Caroll's quote seemed to interpret a continuous spread of values through having various probabilities.
    • Um.... it's hard to read through internet, I hope you don't think I'm being mean.... *shyness*
  • Andrew's critisisms

    Make clear what the science is saying and what you want it to say.
    You can't just jump to conclusions and call it science because then you are saying the science is saying something it's not.

    Opinions can make good magic but they make bad science.

    Understand the scientific method if you want to use science in your magic and writing.

    And when quoting science remember that most magic is not supported by science. Magic might have a place in science, but to do so, it must conform to the scientific method.

    Stop with the quantum already! Unless you have done the math, seen how it works, you just won't get it. The quantum world is an amazing place, and it is not done justice by the platitudes that are usually spouted. When you look at the mathematics of it, you find results that are completely alien to our general understanding of the universe. This does not make it magic, nor does it necessarily give insight into how magic might work any more than the theory of gravity does.

    In the Quantum realm an observation can change the states of what you are looking at. However, these effects are almost always an indication of loss of control -- that's essentially the Heisenberg Uncertainty principal.

    If you take the spin of an electron, it can either be up or down, these are the only possible two states. However we exist in a 3 dimensional world and can measure it in any direction. These different directions constitute incompatible states. If for example we have a spin up electron oriented vertically, and measure it horizontally, we do change the orientation of the spin of that electron to horizontal, but now we cannot know whether it will be up or down in that frame, in this case its 50% either way.

    In my opinion, if there is magic in quantum physics, it exists at a far deeper level than what is known about it. I suspect however that magic is in a different realm than quantum mechanics. If you are using psuedoscience to prop up your belief in magic, do yourself a favour and stop, its a false crutch.

    • Re: Andrew's critisisms

      I should make this clear that this is Andrew's thoughts on what I wrote, and the subject in general. He hasn't read S/TM.

      I am going to bed.
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